Bernhard Mehl - Kisi, Co-founder

Episode 34: How Kisi App Unlocked the Door to Success for Bernhard Mehl

Who is Bernhard Mehl and the key takeaways in this episode?

The challenge of living in a foreign country is no easy task. You have to learn the language, study the culture, and cope with homesickness. But for Bernhard Mehl who was raised in Germany, moving to the US did not hinder him to fulfill his American Dream. Instead, while he’s busy learning the language, the people and the culture, he also started building a company.

Tune in to this episode and follow through the story how Bernhard found success that he didn’t get in his own country of Germany. Some key points in this interview include:

  • How Bernhard overcame his challenge with the English language
  • What was his foundation that propelled him to be the entrepreneur he is today
  • We’ll also look into the genesis of his business idea and the birth of Kisi
  • His thoughts on company culture
  • Which company he admires the most and why

The Questions

[3:48] You have a tremendous command of the English language. And I want to ask you something, how hard was it to learn English?
Answer: I just did what everyone, what I would recommend to everyone to learn English better. When I came out of school, I actually wasn’t able to watch English movies and understand them. But I just watched a lot of movies.

[23:51] Now, can you give our listeners a tip for those that are trying to build a dynamic culture and build their business?
Answer: Well, what we started with is location. We deliberately decided to stay in DUMBO in Brooklyn and not to move to Midtown where a lot of the companies talk to ours. That’s part of the choice you have to make which do you want to appear a little less tax or you do it in New Jersey, you want to be in the center of where everything happens in case you have to be DUMBO or in Broadway in Manhattan. So location is a choice. And it also, every one of our people, our coworkers, everyone who wants to use the product themselves. So if you want to build or create culture and you want to be excited about the company and product, you better be excited about it really by using it every day.

[25:03] What advice would you give people to have and avoid what you’ve seen is the common mistake upon entrepreneurs and what do they do?
Answer: What we see a lot and what we also did is to build something without knowing if anything wants it. So we at TechCrunch Disrupt, when we presented, we basically had different product developed and the company was coming to us and asking for it. so finding potential clients, finding people who would be interested in testing and using it is a lot more important than, “Oh my god, I don’t have any technical skills. I need two developers to develop the product first before in a year anyone can see it.” so that’s a very common thing that we see happens often times. That people think, no one will accept my product unless it’s perfect. And then that’s usually ending in a failure.

Culture According to Bernhard Mehl:

Company culture is in my point of view type of people who are in a space together, how they collaborate and environment they build together. In office, it depends what they put in the wall and that says a lot about your company culture, even in a start-up like ours, we don’t care so much in the beginning, but we realize if there’s a new employee or a new intern, or a new customer or whoever comes to us basically, visitors, they immediately have a picture in their mind of culture. For my point of view, it’s also important to reflect what you built in a team and the feeling you have in a team to also translate that to space.

Go To Quote for Inspiration

Book Recommendations:

  • Encyclopedia of New York

What Bernhard Mehl Wants His Company to BE:

  • BE Open Minded
  • BE Driven
  • BE Focused

Links and Resources Mentioned in this Interview:

Where to Find Bernhard Mehl:

Connect with John on

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

John: Welcome to BE Culture Radio. And Bernhard, my guest, how are you?

Bern: I’m great. How are you?

John: I’m super. Thanks for coming on the show. We’re so excited to talk to you today. You’ve got a great story to tell us. But before we get started on that, our listeners want to hear a little bit about you, where you came from, and what made you the man you are today.

Bern: Sure. My name is Bernhard. I’m actually from Germany, Munich. I came to New York two years ago to start a business with my friends that is called Kisi. And we do people’s access for offices and buildings on your smartphone. What makes me the man I am today, I guess that’s my marriage. A married man is always a happy man.

John: You know what they say, “Happy wife, happy life.”

Bern: Exactly. That’s true.

John: Now, tell us a little bit about – Now, it’s got to be a tremendous cultural shift for you to come from Germany to the States.

Bern: It is. But it’s so much more fun to do business in the US. In Germany, no one wants to buy anything that his neighbor doesn’t have. In New York, especially, everyone wants to be first. So it’s completely opposite.

John: But tell us: how was it growing up in Germany? Was there a certain culture and structure that helped you form to be the professional you are today?

Bern: Wow, that’s a good question. I actually grew up in a suburban environment; I lived above my grandparent’s apartment with my parents. We had a dog and I had a lot of time to play and all that stuff. Yeah, I guess, in Germany there’s just a lot more structure. You go to school at this time, you come home at this time, you eat at this time. So I guess I learned to be very structured in Germany, which helps to cope with life and business. But I also learned a lot of different instruments, like drums, and all that stuff. And I just got to know a lot of different people and can, so to speak, talk in a lot of different languages to creative, tech guys, or other people that come from a totally different background. So I think that’s a pretty important skill that I value now a lot more than I did when I was in school.

John: You have tremendous command of the English language. And I want to ask you something: how hard was it to learn English?

Bern: I just did what everyone – what I would recommend to everyone – to learn English better. When I came out of school, I actually wasn’t able to watch English movies and understand them. But I just watched a lot of movies.

John: It works. I’ll tell you this story, I have my 24-year-old child who is an autistic child, and we went to Costa Rica on vacation, and he doesn’t speak anything but English. And we were in Costa Rica, and the language is Spanish. He watched TV and three days later – we were there for three days – and he’s having a full-blown conversation with the lady that’s helping us there in the home. They’re having a full-blown Spanish conversation – and I speak no Spanish, my wife speaks no Spanish – but the autistic child was having a full-blown conversation in Spanish. We get on the plane and he never speaks Spanish again. And so we said to him, “Hey, Alex, how did you learn to speak that language?” He said, “We watch TV, dad.”

Bern: That’s how it is.

John: I think you’re right. I think it works. Hey, tell us a little bit about Kisi. How did you come up with it? Where did the idea come from? Tell us a little bit about it.

Bern: Yeah. It’s actually a pretty fun story. My friend and me, we worked at a start-up back in Munich, and we were the first two employees. We did high-tech fitness machines for gyms. And then, after a while, we were growing so fast, so suddenly we were 50 people but we still had five keys. And we have a pretty cool office with a gym and all that stuff. But all the people started to ring the doorbell when they came in late or after lunch, when they had a cigarette, when they had a coffee, all that stuff. So the doorbell was basically ringing all the time. And we saw why no one ever tried to put the key into the phone when that is a more important problem for us to solve than building the next fitness machine.

John: So this product, take us through the product again, so my listeners can understand it, please. Tell us what exactly it does because it sounds so cool. And one of the guys I work with came in and was all excited when he had met you. He said, “You’re not going to believe what his product does.” And I looked at him and I’m like, “It does what?” So take us through it slowly.

Bern: Alright. So basically, the user perspective is you have an app on the phone and there’s a button and you can press that button when you’re in front of a door and unlock the door. So it’s basically like a keycard on your phone. And to do that, we have a little hardware component that we’ve manufactured and produce in Brooklyn. And that goes into your server room and hooks up to the existing keycard system that Honeywell or Siemens or whoever provides. So you can run both systems in parallel, and the office manager or the head of security or whoever shows you access can manage the access a lot more flexibly. That means a lot more people can get in, for example, the key nurse, the service people, the delivery people, the clients, the vendors, the new interns. All these people suddenly can have keys at no additional cost and no additional work. And that’s really explained in a nutshell what Kisi is.

John: So you’re literally changing the way we go in and out of our buildings?

Bern: It’s basically when we realized – in the beginning we thought we allow people to get in easier – what we realized is that it’s really also an experience that people have, the first way to get into a building in New York, in a big skyscraper is to stand in line, get a photo taken, get a paper badge. I’ll do all these things that are already annoying. And with our system, you can have the key before and you press the button and you go in and you’re already feeling, “Wow, this is a cool company. This must be a pretty cool place.” So it’s already a different expectation  that you have in mind.

John: Wait a minute, I’ve got to ask you this. A lot of our listeners own small businesses, have emerging businesses. We have, for example, here in New Jersey, where my showroom is, we have a fab system, because we have locks on our doors that are magnetic locks, and you wave a fob in front of the door to get in. So this would replace that, correct?

Bern: It doesn’t replace it. It goes on top of it. So basically, you can still use whatever you use today. Nothing changes on your locks. All of the things stay the same, which is add a little router in your server room and you can access the doors the same way you do it with the keycard just for the app. And actually, in New Jersey, one of our biggest user bases is on the waterfront, all these big residential buildings. They all get in with Kisi to the garage, with the pool, kindergarten, gym, and building doors and the restaurants and all that stuff.

John: Wow, that is amazing. Now, I’ve got to ask you this: was there an event or a tipping point when you were first developing this company when you and your partner said, “Wow,” the lights went on, you got it. You’re like, “Here we are, this is the moment when we move forward.” Can you share that story with us?

Bern: Yeah, it’s actually a pretty specific event. So in Germany, we mostly started to develop this product. And we didn’t have any clients. We just tried it out on our own homes and we were happy that it works and all that stuff. It worked from time to time at that point. And then in the US, when we came over, one month after we moved here, we had TechCrunch Disrupt presentations. So we somehow got in there because we applied at a late night idea, just five minutes and applied to it. So TechCrunch is apparently the biggest start-up outlet that you want to have exposure to. And we were on stage and no one at that time – we did a very German presentation – no one understood at all what we were talking about, because at that time, we were explaining everything as if it was so difficult. So nothing changed. And we went offstage. There was a huge audience, like 2,000 people. And nothing happened, and we had a little booth in the first floor, and a co-working space came by and said, “Hey, I need that at my space. How much does it cost?” And that’s the first customer that we got.

John: And most people will say to you, “This sounds great, but I probably can’t afford it.”

Bern: Yeah, the people who go to these conferences and start-up environment places, they expect to help you develop the product. So that’s what we did. We told them, “Hey, you don’t pay anything unless it works for you. We put it on your space. You can try it out, give us feedback. We improve it until it works for you. And then, you start paying.”

John: Now, if you’re a small business owner, how does that work?

Bern: Well, right now, the product works so well that we don’t do it as often anymore.

John: Okay. Funny how that works, right?

Bern: But now, we have a model where we pay – if you have up to 2,000 square feet, that’s a small office – you pay $39 a month and a one-time fee of $99 for set-up. And you get an out-of-the-box enterprise level access control system. And that’s really when you compare that to a normal vendor, who charges you $5,000 and you still don’t know what you get. And they keep charging you and charging you, once you are in their system, for hours. And it’s not that fun. So actually, the cool thing is that we can already brand ourselves through very transparent pricing. And since the product works really well for a small business, there are always problems with access on weekends and after-hours and all that stuff. It’s also not a big cost to many people. They’d rather spend five hours less or make their people more productive and spend $20 a month than going out there.

John: And for me, as a business owner, what makes me nuts is they had the fobs, and this person’s fob broke, and by the way, now I have to pay for a new fob. And I’m like, “It’s not my building.”

Bern: And you know what, the funny thing is – and we experience that in the beginning too – the landlords, a lot of people don’t like the landlords because they make them charge $50, $100, $150 for key fobs. – And the simple reason why the landlord does that is because they don’t like you to lose it and they want you to be responsible for it. So we work with a lot of the bigger landlords. We want to give them control and say, “Hey, at all points, you can see who is on this access list for the building.” And that’s all they want. All they want is to know because they have a liability. They need to know who gets in the building. And as long as you can give them that, they’re fine. They don’t even charge you for the keys.

John: It’s an amazing product, I’ve got to tell you. Now I know why Ryan was so excited about it, because it’s not just an app, it’s a building security system. Now, the building tracks people.

Bern: Well, it tracks people. It tells you who comes in, right?

John: When I say track, we refer to people coming in and out of our building, and as a business owner, I want to know who came in, and who came out. So they came in at 6 in the morning, and they left at 6 at night. You want to know from a security standpoint so people are okay.

Bern: Actually, we are very transparent with the data that is visible to the landlord. So we show everyone the same data as the landlord’s. So you can see exactly if I press this, that happens. And then the person sees that I enter these things.

John: Very cool. Yeah, I want to change gears a little bit. I want to talk about culture and I want to talk specifically with you and get your definition of what you think company culture is.

Bern: Company culture is from my point of view the type of people who are in a space together, how they collaborate and the environment they build together. In an office, it depends what they put on the wall and that says a lot about your company culture. Even in a start-up like ours, we don’t care so much in the beginning, but we realize if there’s a new employee or a new intern, or a new customer or whoever comes to us, basically visitors, they immediately have a picture in their mind of culture. From my point of view, it’s also important to reflect what you built in a team and the feeling you have in a team – to also translate that to space.

John: And as you and I talked pre-show, for the last 30 years, I’ve been in the interiors business, and I help people go through this process all the time and I do a lot of emerging companies. And I talk to a lot of the founders, and they’re like, “Well, I want to be prudent with the dollars I’m spending.” And I’m like, “Okay, I’m good with that.” And I try to share with them, it’s about product application and making it warm, making it welcome, and making every dollar count so that you get a kit of parts. So you say, “You know what, what you have today, you’re not going to look like this in five years. And what you bought today, can you add on to it? Can you change and can you make your space pivot and make your environment work?” Because what is considered culture today is going to be different in five years. And I say to people at a time, “You’re not going to wear the same clothes five years from now that you’re wearing today, are you?” Well, no, or it could be different styles. So will it be a variation of it, yeah. Will it be a slacks, will it be skirts, will it be coats? Yes, but will it be a different style and a different application of that, right?

Bern: Yeah, and I would add to that that you are also able to utilize your space in a different way once it really reflects your culture, in a way, for example, I can tell you a little bit about our office. So we use to work in the NYU incubator in DUMBO, which is packed with people, strappy, all on their laptops, and pretty dark because it deals with the landlord, there’s not so much light. But it’s still a nice space. But it’s just not so much used yet. And people, when we have big meetings, there, they knew we are an early stage start-up which is two, three people and all that stuff. And now, we moved one floor up. Accidentally, we got to know the partner of an agency called Red Antler, and now we moved in their space and shared the space with them. And they have a huge wall design office with a bar and people table and conference room, all that stuff. And now, we suddenly are able to utilize basically our own office as meeting space, as event space, as a recruiting tool, as a showroom even, where you can book on our website. You can book showroom meetings in our office, and you basically come to our office and check it out. And it’s also making it more open to a lot more people and that’s exciting for everyone.

John: What we tell people all the time, we have a 15,000 square foot showroom with all types of different layouts and product configurations and boardrooms. And people say to me all the time, “John, you guys use that boardroom?” I’m like, “No, I don’t use my boardroom. But I keep it here.” And we open the doors to anyone. I tell people all the time, “You want to come by and use the boardroom, have a meeting here? Knock yourself out.” So if ever you’re in New Jersey, you want a boardroom, my friend, my boardroom is your boardroom. You’re more than welcome to come and use our boardroom.

Bern: See, that’s exactly one cultural aspect. You’re more open automatically when you’re in a cool office or office that reflects your company. You can be that way. Otherwise, you try to not make people come to your space and try to work less there and work in a coffee shop. And that impacts the culture of your company too.

John: I couldn’t agree more. For us, we show people every type of product configuration you can see so we don’t have the typical everybody looks the same, because we have two and three and four-person setups, and they’re all laid out differently because I feel like when you’re trying to decide what it is your culture is, I don’t get to dictate that. I get to ask you, as someone who is trying to help you build your culture and realize your vision, “Do you want to look like this over here or do you want to look like that over there?” And if I can’t show that to you, I didn’t really help you, did I?

Bern: Well, it also – the other way around – building your space also helps you to find your company culture too. So where we look for example that is we put a huge numbers dashboard on the wall. And now, everyone sees how we are doing, how much traffic we have and all that stuff. And yeah, it’s part of our culture. We are more numbers-driven maybe because we’re German. But we also want to be that way. People are aware, “Hey, what’s going on in that space? What are these people working on? How is the product doing?” So you can also intuitively do that stuff and that’s what we did. We just put a TV on the wall and showed some numbers. But then in return, we realized, “Wow, we’re pretty numbers-driven.” And people seem to like that because now it’s more transparent.

John: Now, do you think that this has helped you attract new talent to your firm?

Bern: Definitely. When they come to the space and they say, “Wow, this is where you work? I’ve never been in such a cool office. This is what I imagined start-ups to look like. The company I work in right now, it’s just cubicles. And I would feel proud working here. It would be so much more fun.” So this is already the pre-expectation they would have. And that’s when you’re able, if to decide between this company or that, not only the dollars or when their first check comes, but also what the feeling is that they have on our company. And that’s really valuable. And with this feeling they start on the first day, and they also help make this company to be more that way.

John: Bernhard, I want to change gears a little bit and I want to ask you a business question here. You received an amazing round of funding. Can you share with us what that was like, the story of how you achieved such a phenomenal milestone?

Bern: So basically, the press release is going live next week. So officially, we didn’t raise any amount yet, but next week we did.

John: Guess what, this will air far after that.

Bern: No problem. But yeah, so really, what it takes to do that is just the same with hiring: it’s to find the right investors that believe in your vision, and you had better have a vision that you want to achieve and our vision is to make cities better for people, easier to get into spaces and more secure. And there are people out there looking for that stuff. So you just have to find the right tools for people. Among the 300 that we talked to, we found them. And it’s really a numbers game and at the end, you can ask certain people or look at their past investment history. So from that point of view, finding the right people to invest is key. And then from the other point of view, we always have pretty cool spaces that use our product; all the co-working spaces in Manhattan basically use our product. And we naturally gained pretty good exposure because the VCs frequently go into these spaces and check out what people use, and ask people, “Hey, what do you use for e-mails? What do you use for sales? Wow, I saw you guys use an app to unlock a door, what is that?” And then, they check us out. So actually, that helps, too, to build the word of mouth which is actually stronger than if you just tell someone your product is great. People go there and see it as really working, and people like it and use it.

John: Okay. I want you to give us a little crystal ball now, okay? You have this investment, we’re 24 months from today, now what are you going to do with the capital? How are you going to invest it? How are you going to grow your company? What’s it look like?

Bern: Well, the thing is our plan is 12 months. We have a timeline where we attract certain early adopters, the tech companies, advertising agencies, co-working spaces. This is really people who give you a lot of feedback about the product. And that’s when we grow a little slower because we spend a lot of time with our users in helping them to improve the product. Right now, actually next week, we’ll go live with our first enterprise level customer, it’s a 700-people headquarter in Midtown Manhattan. And that will help us. Attracting that level of customer will help us to roll out that cluster, and what we realized immediately with getting such big clients, is that you have to be global. So this company has offices around the world. And they get visitors all the time, and that’s the cool thing with our product. They give a lot to the visitors. So the people from London, from Singapore, from LA, they will say, “Hey, what about my office? When do I get that in my office?” And then suddenly that spreads a lot faster. So our goal is really to empower the networking between offices so that you can have a global access pass for your own company. When you travel, you can get in there. When you are not in the New Jersey office, but in the Manhattan Downtown office, you can also get in there with our app. That’s really what people like. And of course, we realize while there could be so many more products, we can build around that because people – especially office managers or office management – it’s a very underserved category in the enterprise space, because sometimes it’s not really clear whose department is responsible for certain tasks. For example, if the Wi-Fi’s out, who has to tell whom if you don’t have a big IT department? The engineer has to run, but who tells them that and who monitors the Wi-Fi and all that stuff? So that’s simple things like that, to just keep the office working. And no one really cares about this. And that’s a place where we can play starting with access control.

John: Now can you give our listeners a tip for those that are trying to build a dynamic culture and build their business? What tip would you give them because they’re all starting, a lot of our listeners are starting out, they’re building companies or they’re inside an organization and their task is to build this amazing company, and build this amazing culture? You’re in it right now. What’s your tip for them?

Bern: Well, what we started with is location. We deliberately decided to stay in DUMBO in Brooklyn and not to move to Midtown where a lot of the companies talk to ours. That’s part of the choice you have to make. Which do you want? To pay a little less tax, then you do it in New Jersey. If you want to be in the center of where everything happens, in that case you have to be in DUMBO or in Broadway in Manhattan. So location is a choice. And it also – every one of our people, our coworkers, everyone who wants to use the product themselves. So if you want to build or create culture and you want to be excited about the company and product, you better be excited about it really by using it every day.

John: I couldn’t agree more. Now, what advice would you give people to have and avoid what you’ve seen is the common mistake upon entrepreneurs and what do they do? You may have seen this time and time again. You probably say it yourself, “Oh my goodness. Stop doing that.”

Bern: What we see a lot and what we also did is to build something without knowing if anyone wants it. So we at TechCrunch Disrupt, when we presented, we basically had a different product developed and the company was coming to us and asking for it. so finding potential clients, finding people who would be interested in testing and using it is a lot more important than, “Oh my god, I don’t have any technical skills. I need two developers to develop the product first before in a year anyone can see it.” so that’s a very common thing that we see happens oftentimes. That people think, “No one will accept my product unless it’s perfect.” And then that’s usually ending in a failure.

John: What did they say? If you’re not embarrassed by your first release, you probably waited too long?

Bern: Yeah, we’re definitely embarrassed about our first release.

John: So then you did it right?

Bern: We also over-engineered a little bit in the beginning.

John: That’s okay. We appreciate that in the States. Hey, listen, I want to take you to the lightning round. Is there a book that changed your life?

Bern: Wow, changed my life, I mean, I’m reading right now the “Encyclopedia of New York”. That is very enlightening. I don’t know if it changes my life, but it definitely changes my view on my every day environment that I’m working and the people I interact with in Manhattan. We have a little bit of history in New York. That is definitely a book I would recommend to everyone. But yeah, I would say a book that changed my life is probably the kid’s book I got from my mom that I read probably 50,000 times.

John: I like that. Do you have a quote you go to for inspiration?

Bern: I always liked “Just do it.”

John: Second guy today that said that.

Bern: It’s really cool. It’s fun. At the end, it just matters what you do and how people react to that.

John: Exactly. What company do you admire the most as it relates to culture and why?

Bern: This is a very interesting question. In Manhattan, there’s a company that is called BarkBox they do a very fun product. It’s basically there’s this monthly deliver box that you can get for cosmetics, and they do that for dogs. So it’s a subscription that you buy or line in and you get monthly delivery of new, cool dog food and dog plate things and all that stuff. And for some reason, they started to brand themselves also in communication. So it’s pretty interesting. And it fits the culture very well when they do presentations. They start throwing in “woofs” and other dog language and it just makes it so much more. If you remember and you feel like these people really love their product, they really love dogs. We go into the office, there are so many dogs in there, not that it’s weird, but it’s really a lot of dogs there. And that’s really building a culture around the product and really making people feel you’re serious about this stuff in a fun way.

John: I guess you’d better be an animal lover if you want to work there.

Bern: Yeah, right? Otherwise, you don’t want to work there.

John: But if the dog hair bothers you on your pants. Hey, why should a young person coming out of school want to work for Kisi?

Bern: Well, there’s a lot of reasons. So we are still a very small company, there’s a lot of opportunities that we can work on. We always tell people, if you start here, this is a job that we thought about. But if you are more interested in something different, we can always switch it. So it’s a very flexible environment. And our industry that we work in, access control, it’s one of the oldest industries and hasn’t been changed in a while. But a lot of people look at this category now and especially in relation to cyber security and Internet and things, and all of these mobile tests, so it’s a very hot category. But what I always like the most is that we have the coolest companies in Manhattan as clients. And so always the most exciting thing is that we see all these different offices. We talk to all these different people and we see all these different cultures. And when you build up such a huge network and people just know you, when we sit in the subway and we wear a hat and it says, “Kisi,” people start talking to us and say, “Wow, you’re working for Kisi? Awesome! I use that in my building and I use it in my office.” And that’s just very exciting.

John: Well, Bernhard, here we go for a big finish, okay? Now, you’re going to have to humor me because the answer, you have to start it by “BE” as in BE Culture Radio. So if you had to describe the culture at Kisi in three words, what would it be?

Bern: BE open-minded, BE driven and BE focused.

John: BE open-minded, BE driven and BE focused. I like that. I like it a lot. I can’t thank you enough for your time today. How can our listeners connect with you?

Bern: We have a pretty cool website that is called getkisi.com. You can always stop by on our office in DUMBO. Just let us know. Just shoot us an e-mail online and we’ll make it happen.

John: Perfect. Any rollouts you want to tell us about our listeners? Anything exciting about to happen that we should be on the lookout for?

Bern: Yeah, actually, our press release coming out next week is about a big rollout we do in Midtown Manhattan with that office with 700 people. And it’s a pretty big company. So we think next week you will read something in the news, or at that point, when you will have sent that podcast, you will have read it.

John: We’ll be two weeks behind you.

Bern: Exactly.

John: People will still be saying, “Wow,” when they hear you on our podcast.

Bern: Hopefully.

John: Hey, I want to share with you, and I always share with all my guest my favorite quote before we end, and it is from Maya Angelou which is “People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

Bern: That’s true.

John: And I hope we made you feel welcome. We hope we made you feel valid and we hope we made you feel like you’re part of our tribe.

Bern: Thanks a lot. That’s a very, very interesting experience that you gave me here because not many companies manage to build a culture or to create content that circles around culture. And certainly, you made me feel very welcome and it’s a really cool format. I really like it a lot.

John: Super. So I want you to do me a favor: in your travels, you meet a lot of entrepreneurs that I think would love to tell their story and have people hear it, so would you do me a favor and send them our way and let them know, just call John, just reach out to him, he’ll have you on the show? I love people. I love talking to people. I’m pretty transparent. As you know, we talked pre-show. You know what, if they’re okay with you, they’re okay with me.

Bern: Awesome.

John: Super. I wish you the very best. You’ll come back in about six months and tell me how it’s going?

Bern: Yeah.

John: Perfect. Thank you so much for your time.

Bern: Okay, thanks a lot too.

John: BE well, my friend.

Bern: Okay. Bye.

John: Bye-bye.