Episode 22: The Culture App, the startup that is changing how companies showcase company culture with Taylor Wallace

Who is Taylor Wallace and the key takeaways in this episode?

Mobile apps are the greatest craze in today’s generation. Whether you’re looking for games, productivity tools, fitness, travel, and yes, even if you are trying to build a thriving company culture. Well, there’s an app for that!

Today’s guest is Taylor Wallace, Co-founder of WeVue, creator of the culture app. In this interview, Taylor and I had a really great exchange of thoughts on culture and how their app can do wonders in building a company’s culture. Some of the topics we’ve covered include:

  • The story behind the Culture App and how it all started
  • How an app can actually empower a company’s culture
  • What makes the culture app different from other social networking apps like Facebook
  • The cost to companies for not caring about their culture
  • Why they focus on achievements as a collective effort and not as individual output

The Questions

[4:21] You hear the term “cultural app.” How did that come about?
Answer: Yeah, as far as we’re aware, there’s no one who’s really directly creating software products for specific company culture. There are people who are definitely creating apps that are being used to enhance and capture, and promote company culture. But there’s no one that’s kind of coming at it, I think, from our perspective, saying, “Hey, this is our primary focus.” And we kind of came to it from two places: one, the fact that we think that company culture is really becoming this very important thing from an outward-facing perspective.

[7:55] Okay, so I’m going to ask you a really stupid question from the perspective of a 55-year-old guy. What’s the difference between The Culture App and Facebook?
Answer: So the difference between that and Facebook is the fact that a) it’s entirely private for your organization. It’s branded for your company. It has an element of being an intranet as well, so that every employee has a profile or showcases the photos and videos they’re adding. And then ultimately, we help the company showcase the best pieces of that content on their website for recruiting purposes.

[16:06] What advice would you give someone that’s in that position and trying to build a culture and build a team, and do it right?
Answer: It’s a great question. I think that the key thing for us—and I’ll just kind of use it anecdotally—is, you know, we really focus on being fast and being nimble. Not being afraid to fail, I think, is a big one. The other thing that we really stress is that we don’t stress ownership over anything. So no product, no feature, no idea, no brand, nothing that we create is the result of any one person. It’s a result of us as a team. And I think that’s been absolutely integral in getting to where we are today. So I think that the common mistake of an entrepreneur is saying, “Hey, I built this company. I came up with this idea.” And really, it’s not about that. I mean, I think building a great culture is building a great team, and saying, “We’re all in this together. We all share ownership of this.” Whether you’re going to fail or win together, it’s a zero-sum game. “Let’s be successful by kind of sharing those ideas and those successes.”

Culture According to Taylor Wallace:

So my personal definition of company culture is the values and habits promoted and embodied by the people who drive the success of an organization. And I think the companies are really made up of many different parts, depending on what they do with their products, their services, the marketing, whether they do human capital, technology, you name it. But really, in my mind, the culture is the glue that ties all that together. I think that without culture you become a static corporate hegemon, that is, people are working there for a paycheck and not for their souls.

Go To Quote for Inspiration

Book Recommendations:

  • “Waiting for Godot” by Samuel Beckett

What Taylor Wallace Wants His Company to BE:

  • BE Fast
  • BE Empowered
  • BE Happy

Links and Resources Mentioned in this Interview:

Where to Find Taylor Wallace:

Connect with John on

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

John: Taylor, welcome to BE Culture Radio. Glad to have you.

Taylor: Awesome. Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

John: I’m so happy you spent time with us. I was talking to Taylor a little, pre-show, about my 21-year-old daughter, who thinks that he and his app are the coolest things in the world. But before we dive into that, Taylor, I want you to share with our listeners a little bit about your history and where you come from, and what makes you the person you are today.

Taylor: Awesome, yeah. So, I’ve kind of had an interesting journey to the path of the start-up world. I started off as a teenager, wanting to be a writer and a storyteller. And I went to the University of St. Andrews, in Scotland, across the ocean, and studied writing there for four years. And while I was there, I interned for some tech companies in the summers which I had off. And I also got really involved in producing and writing plays.

In my last year that I was there, I produced a play that we ended up taking to the largest theater festival in the world, and that we funded through a Kickstarter campaign. And I kind of started to realize that I really enjoyed the process of managing creative people in order to build something bigger than each of us individually; a lot more so than I like just sitting down and writing by myself in a room. And at the same time, I kind of came to the realization, too, that the greatest storytelling medium ever invented was the Internet, and that we were really just at the dawn of what the Internet was capable of as far as creating amazing stories is concerned.

So coming out of school, I just tried to find a job that, basically, was the most technical thing I could get hired for with a degree in English Literature. And I ended up working for a data management company that sold and bought data for behavioral targeting of ads in New York City. And within three or four months – it was a small start-up and they really needed someone to kind of just hit the ground running – so it was after three or four months that I was working with Google, AOL and Yahoo!, on the account management and sales side. And then from there, I had a chance to really work on some product management, some marketing, which kind of grew those skills out. And after being there for a little while, I knew it was kind of time to dive back into something a little bit more creative and outside the advertising world; it wasn’t really where my passions lied.

And actually, my cousin had come up with the idea for the WeVue consumer products, and he was looking for someone to take and run with that, who with more business and tech experience than he did at the time. But he managed to go out and secure a little bit of funding for the idea. So I came on as the first employee. And that was about three years ago, and we’ve been running it ever since.

John: I get that it’s a great story. Today, we’re going to talk about how an app can power a company’s culture. And I was really excited when you decided to join us on our show. Because 12 years ago, my partner, better known as my wife, and I built a company that’s not a lifestyle brand in office furniture, but a culture. We felt that office furniture is not a commodity, and apps clearly are not a commodity, so you resonate with us because we feel you can create a lifestyle and a culture by appropriately using them and putting them in the hands of the millennials and the people that are evolving into our workforce these days. And I want to ask you a question about that. You hear the term “cultural app.” How did that came about? Because you were probably right there on the cutting edge when it came about, right?

Taylor: Yeah, as far as we’re aware, there’s no one who’s really directly creating software products for specifically company culture. There are people who are definitely creating apps that are being used to enhance and capture, and promote company culture. But there’s no one that’s kind of coming at it, I think, from our perspective, saying, “Hey, this is our primary focus.” And we kind of came to it from two places: one, the fact that we think that company culture is really becoming this very important thing from an outward-facing perspective.

The fact that your daughter was excited about what we’re doing, again, goes back to the notion of, I think, millennials, between 20 and 35. As they’re looking for jobs, they’ve seen Google and Facebook from the outside. And they really want to work for cool companies. And I think as a result, we’re seeing that companies are trying to make more of a lifestyle environment around their workplace. But I don’t think they’re doing the best job of really showcasing that in a meaningful way.

So what we did was, you know, we went out and did a lot of research. And we found some of these amazing companies that really have great, robust company culture that no one’s ever heard of from that perspective, because they’re kind of legacy B2B technology companies. What they do from a product perspective, maybe isn’t as exciting as Google. But they’re awesome places to work. And they’re really struggling to find talent. So we want to come in and try and make that process a little bit easier for them.

John: I got to tell you, I think it is so cool. Because for us, when we look at creating a lifestyle brand and using the art of furniture design to create a culture, you’re taking an app and creating a culture. And the parallels are very similar. You know, just a short anecdote for our listeners: we just finished a project in New York City for SFX Entertainment. Now, they came out of the traditional cubicle farm. And they’ve gone into this really, cool space. And I would tell you that a great deal of their workforce are millennials.

It is so much a lifestyle, your point of a lifestyle brand. And it doesn’t always have to be expensive. And I think that’s where people lose their thought process, and lose their really—they go off the tracks, with the lifestyle brands and “anything you do is expensive.” And I don’t think—I know I don’t agree, and I know millennials don’t agree with that. This is a certain point in time when it resonates with them, and it aligns with their core values. And I just wondered how you felt about that?

Taylor: No, I mean, it’s absolutely true. I think you kind of have two ways in which we see companies approach it. And most of the companies that we’re talking about are—either they’ve been around for a little while, and they’re smaller as far as employee base, or they’re growing quite rapidly and they’re trying to figure out how they can better enhance and promote these cultural initiatives. But if the companies that we see that don’t care about culture at all, they have a very hard time retaining talent.

They don’t generally hire the best people. They hire people who just want to do their job, get the day over with and then go home, as opposed to those really “A-players”, as they’re often called, who want to be doing great and compelling work. And if you can create a great place for them to work, from a furniture perspective all the way through to working with other great people, you’re going to create better products and have a better company as a result of that.

John: So Taylor, tell my listeners, how does a cultural app change the way in which a company attracts talented people, and how does it enhance that lifestyle brand for them?

Taylor: So maybe I should give you a little bit of back story as to how the product evolved, and then we’ll get there. So we started out as a consumer product and the company name is actually still named after that. It’s called “WeVue.” And really, the goal of the app was to allow people to crowd-source photos and videos around events or topics, and then turn that content into a movie, in order to then recap that experience.

So we would go out to weddings and fraternity & sorority events, and sporting events—you name it. We really got involved with trying to gather all of the content that we know was being captured on the phones of the people who were there, and then we would go in and so anyone could make a recap movie of that experience with anyone else’s photos and videos. And we had some success in the consumer market. But it really wasn’t growing at the pace that we wanted it to. And at the same time, the idea of going to concerts and crowd-sourcing that content wore off, I think, the novelty wore off for us.

So we’d had a lot of success at these business events and going out to everything from a business happy hour to an all-hands meeting, or a sales conference, trade show—you name it. And people were really engaging with it in that capacity. So what we’ve done now, is we’ve taken that same technology and we’ve essentially built out an app that lets people customize it based on their company. So you would log in with your corporate e-mail, and you’re then in a branded photo and video sharing app made exclusively for your company. So instead of kind of crowd-sourcing the content, we now call it “company sourcing.” So we’re collecting those corporate stories which are happening everyday. We’re creating photo and video sharing competitions. And we’re taking the cameras that are in everyone’s hands and using that to really help the company tell its stories both internally and externally, through the habits that exist in consumer photo and video sharing.

John: Okay, so I’m going to ask you a really stupid question from the perspective of a 55-year-old guy. What’s the—because we’re technologically challenged, my generation—so what’s the difference between that and Facebook?

Taylor: So the difference between that and Facebook is the fact that a) it’s entirely private for your organization. It’s branded for your company. It has an element of being an intranet as well, so that every employee has a profile or showcases the photos and videos they’re adding. And then ultimately, we help the company showcase the best pieces of that content on their website for recruiting purposes.

So now, if you were to go to a company website right now, you’d click on their culture page and see: “We have three or four stock photos that a photographer took three years ago.” What we do, is we create dynamic albums on their site which are powered by the content the employees are adding from the app. So I’ll now go to the website of a company that’s using our products. And their culture page is constantly being updated based upon the events they’ve had in the last week—everything from their all-hands meetings, their sales conferences, through selfie contests that we’re running with them.

One company right now is running a “Where’s Waldo?” contest where they have a little paper Waldo and they’re hiding it around the office, and you have to find it, take a photo with it, and then leave a clue in the comments as to where you might be able to find that Waldo. So again, I mean, it’s like any social network. It has very similar principles, too, as Facebook. But it’s private; it’s branded for the company. And it’s really designed for companies that are beyond just sales and marketing, and can really focus on talent and fun within the company.

John: Sounds like a real team-building tool.

Taylor: Absolutely.

John: I wonder if you could share with us your personal definition of company culture.

Taylor: So my personal definition of company culture is the values and habits promoted and embodied by the people who drive the success of an organization. And I think the companies are really made up of many different parts, depending on what they do with their products, their services, the marketing, whether they do human capital, technology, you name it. But really, in my mind, the culture is the glue that ties all that together. I think that without culture you become a static corporate hegemon, that is, people are working there for a paycheck and not for their souls.

John: And I’ve said this to a lot of our listeners, that I think that the sand is shifting beneath the feet of a lot of companies in America because of the new workforce coming in and the old management styles. And yes, culture become a very popular word. Some people get it, whereas some people just talk about it and are never  going to get it, and I think the millennials really see through the difference. And I think your app is something that really demonstrates the difference between getting it and just talking about it, because you got to be involved. You have to do it. You can’t just say, “Oh yeah, we’re into culture.” You actually have to participate.

Taylor: Yeah, and I think the thing that crops up too is it definitely is one of those words people often throw out and say, “Hey, we have a great culture.” And then you go into their organization, and everyone’s sitting in a cubicle and no one talks, and there’s no activity that happens outside of a 9-5 day between the employees. We really want to be able to go into companies that don’t work that way, and say, “Hey, here’s a tool that can help capture the things you’re already doing and promote that, so that you can hire more people.” Then also we are going to companies like that and we say, “Hey, here’s some things that we’ve done with other companies that promote culture. And here’s a software tool that will help you facilitate these things.”

John: Taylor, can you tell us a story of where you saw company culture accelerate the growth of a business?

Taylor: Yeah, so we had an interesting event last week, where we worked with a local company called “VectorLearning.” And they’re an online specialized eLearning company for—they do fire and EMS training, as well as architectural and engineering training. So if you have to get re-certified in something, you can do it online through them. And they have, I want to say, four or five locations with over 150 employees, but most of them are based in Tampa, Florida. So they have their big all-hands meeting once a year, and they do a themed event every year. So this year, there was a Top Gun theme. So they sent to all the offices outside of Tampa, as well as the people here, this kind of gift bag; it was a Camel backpack with aviator sunglasses. So that’s a cultural thing that they’re already doing.

Now, where the companies and the satellite offices get left out is they’re live streaming this experience but they have no interaction with the employees who are actually there. They can’t post themselves in the aviators. No one’s seeing how they’re responding to this event. So now with our app, everyone is able to interact with each other at different locations. And the people in the San Diego office and in the Austin, Texas office are posting photos and videos of themselves watching this event via live stream, as if they were there. And then, they’re getting comments and they’re getting likes, and they’re getting feedback from the people who are in Tampa, who were actually at the event. So what was really cool for us was that we talked with them afterwards and they said, “Hey, we never had an all-hands meeting quite like this. Because normally, our people feel so left out with these other offices. And this time, the app really allowed them to feel connected.” So that was an  awesome story for us to hear. And then just on a daily basis, I mean, there are little things that we do like that same selfie contest with them. So it’s the kind of thing—something that they wouldn’t normally do. But they now have a platform where they can be silly internally but not have to worry about a client seeing that on their externally facing social media. We do the same thing with “Overheard in the Office” albums, where people can add little quotes from things that they’ve heard in the office that maybe they don’t want to share on their externally facing social media. Now they have this really cool and easy way to just type a code into their mobile app, so that when they hear something funny in the office it’s only shared with the employees at that company, who would understand the humor in their office.

John: That’s really cool. Because one of the downsides of social media is that it gets away from where it’s intended to be.

Taylor: Absolutely.

John: And people all of a sudden—you know, as a business owner you shouldn’t say, “Well, that’s an internal joke. It’s just between us. And I don’t really want that out in the public domain.” So I think—and the millennials are—I don’t know that all the millennials have gathered that when they put all that stuff out for the public to view it fouls them forever. It doesn’t go away.

Taylor: Yeah, and I think the beauty of the tool that we’ve built is the fact that we allow it all to be very easily gathered internally, vetted by management, and then shown to the external world. So there’s a very defined layer between what’s happening inside the company and then what the app is allowing to be showcased externally. So you can have those two types of conversations. You can have an internal conversation and an external conversation.

John: Sounds like you’ve built the HR component right into it.

Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. And that was a big thing for us as we went through with some of our pilot customers. It was really about finding out where that line is. It’s interesting, as it’s definitely different for every company and we allow some customization behind that.

We work with a lot of advertising agencies. They’re very creative to begin with. They’re very visual. They love the idea of having a tool that can easily share photos and videos, the stuff that they’re working on. And they generally intend to be much more open about their social policies. You know, “Hey, just get this stuff out there. We don’t really care.” But at the same time, they also tend to have some of the more interesting, humorous bits that they definitely want to be kept inside. This is as opposed to some of the more corporate organizations we have worked with, some of these legacy companies. They definitely express some concern initially about the “Hey, anyone can post to this” thing to begin with, but we make sure that it’s vetted before it’s shown outside of that company so that they feel safe giving it to all of their employees.

John: Sounds like you’re helping the older companies move towards the newer way of doing things. That’s very cool. It’s got to be an awesome experience for you guys. I mean, internally, for your own company, how does that make you guys feel? What does it feel like for you guys when you can see people making that quantum leap?

Taylor: Yeah, it’s been pretty amazing. I mean, again, we made a full pivot not too long ago towards this direction. I mean, we were kind of working in more of the consumer space, and then partnering with businesses using our consumer product, but then we said “Hey, we really want to take a deep dive and focus all of our energy on an enterprise application that helps promote and capture company culture.” And I think the initial thought was, “Hey, we’re essentially now trying to give fraternity and sorority sisters and brothers the ability to gather photos and videos from their big party on Friday.” Now, we’re going in and saying, “Hey, we’re going to engage the guy in IT with the girl in marketing, with the guy in sales.” They might not talk on an everyday basis. They might not be in the same office.

But now, we’ve given them a platform to communicate in a cultural way. So they can really know who they’re working with and strive towards a common goal outside of just the productivity tools that they have on a day-to-day basis. So it’s been awesome for us to watch as these organizations have adopted the technology, and have really embraced the fact that they can now have conversations outside of their e-mails or outside of their instant messaging with clients, and can do so in a really visual and engaging way.

John: You know, Taylor, what advice would you give a young entrepreneur who’s building a team? Look, because some of these companies start out and there are five people and then a year later, there’s 105 people. What advice would you give someone that’s in that position and trying to build a culture and build a team, and do it right?

Taylor: It’s a great question. I think that the key thing for us—and I’ll just kind of use it anecdotally—is, you know, we really focus on being fast and being nimble. Not being afraid to fail, I think, is a big one. The other thing that we really stress is that we don’t stress ownership over anything. So no product, no feature, no idea, no brand, nothing that we create is the result of any one person. It’s a result of us as a team. And I think that’s been absolutely integral in getting to where we are today. So I think that the common mistake of an entrepreneur is saying, “Hey, I built this company. I came up with this idea.” And really, it’s not about that. I mean, I think building a great culture is building a great team, and saying, “We’re all in this together. We all share ownership of this.” Whether you’re going to fail or win together, it’s a zero-sum game. “Let’s be successful by kind of sharing those ideas and those successes.”

John: I think you’re 100% right. You know, one of the things we’ve always focused on at our company is creating a linear company, not a hierarchical company. So at any point, at any given time, people change places. And I think it creates a tremendous amount of “team.” And you talked earlier about pivot, that you’ve taken a full pivot and taken a deep dive. Can you share with us what your growth plans are?

Taylor: Yeah, sure. I mean, at the moment, we basically, have been piloting with a bunch of companies for the last three months; we have really just been getting the product in their hands and then refining it based on their feedback. We’re just now wrapping up a few pieces of crucial technology that we think are really going to go to market. We’ve just started selling it kind of behind the scenes right now. This is really one of the first interviews we’ve done, even talking about it with anyone, so we’re still in a little bit of a stealth mode at the moment but we’re really gearing up to start doing some sales in the next few months. So our goal is just to kind of hit the pavement running, and really figure out some of the best sales channels for us. We have a lot of ideas there, and we’ll keep building out great technology based on the feedback we’re getting.

John: Last year, you went through a process and you received funding. And can you share with my listeners what that’s like? Because some people are like, “Oh, you just do this.” I don’t think we should aim to just get up in the morning and do it. It’s a process. I’ve heard people tell me it’s gut-wrenching. Other people are saying, “You know, it is what it is. You go through the process.” How did it make you feel and what did it do for you, and what did you take away from it?

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest drawback to fundraising when you’re a small organization is that it just takes time away; you could be spending it elsewhere, and mainly, in a start-up that’s either building more product or making more sales. So more of the fundraising was done by my partner than me,as he has a more financial background than myself. And I think, for us, we pitched to probably 100 investors over the course of a few months.

That’s just the pitch process. There’s all the preparation that goes into that. And that was all geared around this consumer product that we were working on. So we were lucky in that we had great investors, that we got through that process, and that really encouraged us to make this pivot. They’ve been integral, I think, further down the line, in making good introductions to companies that will use the culture product now. So I think that, yeah, I mean, it’s definitely not something I would recommend doing if you don’t have to do it. But at the same time, I think you can make great relationships out of it, if you find the right investors, who can put you in touch with potential customers, potential hires, or potential partners.

John: I’ve got to tell you, I think the cultural app is so awesome and so cool, but I do see that it has a tremendous deep dive at it. And so, my mind goes to all the possibilities. As most entrepreneurs do. We like shiny things. So I look at them like—hey, Taylor, are you going to go down this path again and get more investors and make it huge and make it blow up? Because it has the potential, right?

Taylor: We think so.

John: And so, I wonder how that plays into the culture of your company moving forward as you go and do this. And I firmly believe that if I were fortunate enough to have you back a year from now, when we’d be talking to a different Taylor; the same guy, but a different guy because he will be bigger, better. And I wonder how you intend to hold on to the culture you have today.

Taylor: Yeah, I think the key for us is our culture; it’s very open. We have a small office here. It’s painted in bright rainbow colors, which is awesome. I like color a lot. And we’re flexible with our people. I think that the whole 9-5 work structure is really not attractive to us. We’re based in Tampa, Florida. The traffic’s horrible here. I don’t think we want to be a very rigid organization from that perspective. So I think as we grow, it’s important to us to try to maintain those values. I think at the same time, really finding great talents who understand the need to work in a team, and to not really own the things they build. It’s again, very important to us.

Really, listening to our customers has become a huge thing in the last few months. On the consumer side, that was definitely a challenge because you’re not directly affiliated with your customer: there’s this random person who’s downloading the app, who you’re trying to talk to. Now, they’re paying us money. And we can go in and we can talk to them. Really listening to them as far as what we want to build next has become a huge part of our work flow. I definitely think those things are things that we want to hold on to as we move forward.

John: Have you run into any scenarios where people bring you in and they want you to do something with your app that you guys just don’t want to do?

Taylor: That’s probably one of our biggest challenges right now. We’ve built—we’re very much a product company. We want to sell a product to many different organizations that is customizable but doesn’t require us to reinvent the wheel every time we do it. One of the challenges that we are facing is that we’re going to an organization, and they say, “Hey, we love what you have but can you do XYZ and ABC as well?” So we’re trying to figure out ways that we can basically make the app very modular, so that we build out a new feature for one customer and then we can—I’ll be able to reuse it with another client. But that’s from a technical perspective. That’s a big challenge for us right now.

John: Wow. Okay. I want to take you into the lightning round because you’ve been very generous with your time and I don’t want to overstay my welcome with you.

Taylor: Alright.

John: So what book would you say has had the greatest influence on your life?

Taylor: This is a great one for me. I’d have to say probably “Waiting for Godot” by Samuel Beckett. It’s a play, but I read it before I saw it. So I think it qualifies.

John: Great. And do you have a quote you go to for inspiration?

Taylor: I have one quote that is on a sticky note next to my desk, and it’s “You are the leader that everyone has been waiting for to show up; no one else is coming.”

John: I like that a lot. Now, I’ve got to separate your company from this question because your company matters, but this— but take me down this path with you. What company do you admire the most as it relates to their culture and why?

Taylor: I’d have to say Facebook, and it’s because they hack first and ask questions later. They take really big risks, and they’re not afraid to fail.

John: Yeah, they’re a very cool company. Now, why should people work at WeVue?

Taylor: We’re here to help companies become better places to work at, and that starts by creating an awesome work environment for us with great perks for our people. I think the goal of waking up every day and saying, “Hey, I want to make your job better, outside of the people who just work for me, but for all of our clients,” is very exciting to us. And we’re also working on the cutting-edge of mobile. And we’re applying all that’s sexy about consumer technology to the enterprise. And that’s where the money’s at. So we’re excited about that.

John: Cool, okay. Here’s the big question of the day. Now remember, you’re on BE Culture Radio so you’ve got to start the answer with “BE.” If you had to describe the culture of your company in three words, what would they be?

Taylor: BE fast, BE empowered and BE happy.

John: You want to add anything to that?

Taylor: I probably would say BE nimble too.

John: Taylor, I really appreciate you taking your time to talk to us today. How can our listeners connect with you?

Taylor: You guys can e-mail me at “Taylor@WeVue.com.” That’s “W-E-V-U-E”.com. Or you can find me on Twitter @taywall with two L’s, “W-A-L-L.” And if you guys are looking to capture, promote or enhance corporate culture, or lower your content marketing costs by leveraging your employees to share photo and video, we’d love to chat with you.

John: Anything else they should know about you? Have you written any books? Is anything else we should know?

Taylor: We’ve got some fun stuff in the works. So keep an eye out for us on social media. Give us a like on Facebook or follow us on Twitter. And we’ll tell you what’s coming out in the future.

John: Alright. I never end the show without sharing with my guest my favorite quote from Maya Angelou, which is “People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” And we certainly hope we made you feel like you’re part of our tribe. And we certainly hope we made you feel valid today. I can’t thank you enough for taking time out of your busy day and spending it with us. And will you come back and see us again?

Taylor: Absolutely.

John: It’s been great. I really appreciate it. I wish you the very best and BE well, my friend.

Taylor: You too. Thanks so much, John.

John: Thanks, Taylor. Bye-bye.

Taylor: Bye.