Who is Oliver Christie and what are the key takeaways in this episode?
Think about artificial intelligence building your website for you. While that is something we don’t have right now, our guest, Oliver Christie is taking the forefront to make it possible in the very near future. In fact, they’re trying that on their own website. To give you a brief introduction, Oliver Christie is the co-founder and CEO of XLABS. He leads an international team that builds enterprise software using artificial intelligence (AI).
That’s just the tip of the iceberg. In this interview, you’ll also learn:
- Oliver’s passion for numbers and how he uses it to solve real world problems
- How he started XLABS
- Their new discovery on how they can compress data down by as much as 99.92%
- How his wife keeps his balance between people and profit
- His future plan for XLABS and how they will change the world
- And a whole lot more, so be sure to listen and subscribe…
[4:52] Tell me something about XLABS. How did you come up with the idea?
Answer: We’ve got the whole team with four technical co-founders. So it’s a team in New York and then also a team in France. And it’s so not me coming up with the idea. It’s really four people with a very similar idea and a lot of overlaps and also coming from different worlds. And it’s getting four smart people together who all want to change the world using data and from that XLABS was formed, and now we make a particular piece of software.
[7:14] Now, for our listeners who are not too familiar with XLABS or artificial intelligence, in layman’s terms, can you help us understand what it means to us in our everyday life?
Answer: The term artificial intelligence is used in a lot of different ways by a lot of different people. So when someone says artificial intelligence does X, it’s better to think of that being lots of different types of artificial intelligence. I think one day, there’s going to be as many types of AI as there is a range of human intelligence, so something like IBM Watson looks at how humans use language and the meaning behind language. So that’s it.
[16:06] How do you keep that balance in place so that your culture stays pure?
Answer: It’s difficult in the onset. At the moment, it feels like it’s running at a thousand miles an hour and it’s very easy to miss things. It’s very easy to get sucked into a thousand things you need to do that week or even that day and forget what you are as a company. We had this last week, so it’s not that we are perfect. We had this last week where it was a very long, very hard week, lots of important things were happening and there was a lot of pressure and there was definitely a point in the week where we saw we were getting away a little bit from our core principles. We were just doing things too quickly. So we slowed down, we regrouped and this week is much better. So I think it’s checks and balances which help to keep that company culture.
Culture According to Oliver:
We wouldn’t get to where we are unless we can all rely on each other on the team, trusting each other, leading the process and believe in what we’re doing. So we say it’s tech first. That’s the biggest thing, but actually it’s our team first; it’s our people. With the right people you can get anywhere.
Go To Quote for Inspiration
- The Little Prince
Links and Resources Mentioned in this Interview:
Where to Find Oliver:
Connect with John on
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
John: Oliver, welcome to the show and thanks for coming on.
Oliver: It’s great to be here, John.
John: I’m glad you can make it. I’ve been looking forward to this show. For my listeners, I had the chance to talk to Oliver for pre-interview and I had to stop myself because the poor guy, I kept him on the phone for 25 minutes. I was so excited to hear about the part of artificial intelligence, reducing the storage and all the cool things he’s doing. For those who don’t know who he is, he is the co-founder and CEO of XLABS and he is just the coolest guy – the true pied-piper of artificial intelligence. If you go to their website in six days, they’re going to have a new site that’s built by artificial intelligence, correct Oliver?
Oliver: Yeah, pretty much. So it’s not the site that’s being built by artificial intelligence.
John: My apologies.
Oliver: No, no, it’s fine. But yeah, we’re building AI which can speed up everything, so we think quite soon we’re going to have an internet which is something like a thousand times faster.
John: That blows me away. All right, so before we get into that, we always like to ask our guests. Tell us about Oliver, tell us about, Oliver, pre-XLABS, pre-adult life; what shaped you; what drove you? I like to call it the tribe. Where’d you come from? How did you get here?
Oliver: Absolutely. So I have a sort of advanced Mac background. That was fun. From there, I ended up working as a bond trader and FX trader. That was back in the UK and then also in Argentina.
What it really is, is just looking at a hell of lot of bond numbers in huge data sets and figuring out what’s going to happen next. And yeah, I did that for a while, such as see patterns in the market, which really is just pure math. And then from there, I built our company called Boxy Machine and that was taking all kinds of holistic approaches to data. A symbol trying to figure out what people do and how they act and so on. So yeah, I’ve always been interested in big numbers, big data and how math can make things better I suppose.
John: Where did that come from?
Oliver: I also want to know how people behave, how people act. And I think once you’re looking at a whole society or huge numbers of people, it gets really exciting. It gets to be, “Hey, why do these group of people do this thing in this way?” It comes down to really what makes us human and then what makes a society.
John: I got to tell you once again from my listeners, another great entrepreneur always asking the question “why”, not “what.” You had to make your parents nuts though. I know. As a kid when you say, “Why?” My mother used to say, “It’s because I said so.”
Oliver: Exactly. So when I was young I would read everything and I was reading adult literature not because I thought it was cool but just, I wanted to know more. I wanted to know what else is out there. So yeah.
John: That’s pretty cool. Today, we’re going to talk about how starting up XLABS is changing the way we use data to solve problems and the culture that’s driving them towards success and I think for my listeners, this is the one interview that I’ve marked on my calendar. If you don’t listen to any of our episodes, but this one, don’t miss this one because I am just so excited about hearing your story and you sharing how you’ve intertwined the hard side of numbers with culture and then been very successful in everything you’ve done. Tell me something, XLABS, how did you come up with the idea?
Oliver: Right. Okay, so we’ve got a whole team with four technical co-founders. So it’s a team in New York and then also a team over in France. And so it’s not me coming up with the idea. It’s really four people with very similar ideas and a lot of overlap, and also coming from different worlds. It’s getting four smart people together who all want to change the world using data and from that XLABS was formed and now we make a particular piece of software.
John: Oliver, I got to jump in here for a moment. It appears to me that XLABS has an unfair advantage because you have all the different cultures from all over the world. And a lot of start-ups in the States, we just see the world from the States’ point of view. I think in a very positive sense, it’s a great thing because as you’re talking about from all the different countries, all the different cultures, they’re able to pour that information and share that to you.
Oliver: Yes, I agree with you to a point, except that New York has got so many people coming in from other countries and other cities as well. There’s a huge immigrant population, which comes with different ideas and this different idea which can make something new, something fantastic that just haven’t thought of before.
So we we’re based in New York. And yeah, to get new ideas, to get new sets of skills, it’s not so hard, but then saying that, we’re going to be reaching out worldwide because we need the very smartest people. It’s not always in your backyard.
John: Now, share with us your “aha” moment, your tipping point, the moment you said, “Oh, yeah, I get it.”
Oliver: Absolutely. This was over a year ago and the guys in France had been working on a particular piece of code and we were finding it really hard. There was some big bugs, some huge challenges.
It was all very technical stuff and then on a certain day, I think it was very late at night, they found something out and said, “We think we’ve cracked it. We think we’ve got it,” and they showed us a particular thing happening and if you knew what you’re looking at, this was just mind blowing. It was how a particular part of the artificial intelligence is working and that’s the day I realized that the company, that XLABS was going to be absolutely huge.
John: Now, for our listeners who are not too familiar with XLABS or artificial intelligence in layman’s terms, can you help us understand what it means to us in our everyday life?
Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. The term artificial intelligence is used in a lot of different ways by a lot of different people. So when someone says artificial intelligence does X, it’s better to think of there being lots of different types of artificial intelligence. I think one day, there’s going to be as many types of AI as there are kinds of human intelligence, so something like IBM Watson looks at how humans use language and the meaning behind language.
So that’s it. It’s intelligence is to try and work out how a story develops, or how it’s told or so on. There are other types which look at market data and this is where we started off, where you can forecast to see what’s going to happen next. A bit like the weather forecast, but taking in more knowledge; so the more you look at something, the more you understand it.
John: Wow. Now there’s a little catch too, because I remember when we were first talking and help me with this, Oliver, if you will. The ability to reduce storage by over 92%, that’s another little trick you have in your bag?
Oliver: It is. To begin with, XLABS was looking at market data so obviously as I’ve got an FX background and bond trading background, I know that quite well and we were wanting to forecast what was going to happen next with the stock market. So to do that, you need huge amounts of data, so we were sucking in massive quantities of data and we were needing to compress some of it to make the whole thing just work better and our AI, Rita, who was named after a female French scientist, figured out a way to do this better and we saw this happening and went “Hey, wait a minute this is really useful.”
So from that, we built up a kind of a ten-step program, but we ended up with a new compression algorithm and a new way of getting there. So now it’s actually not 99.2, it’s 99.92%. So then you’ll end up with a thousand times more storage when you’re developing.
John: Wow. That changes the game, doesn’t it?
Oliver: Yes, we think so. Yeah, absolutely.
John: All right. Now, I want to change course a little bit and I want to talk about culture and how you define company culture.
Oliver: Yes. Actually, we’ve spent a long time talking about this. So yes, we’ll always be building things and making our software better. We talk about AI, but we also talk about the moral aspects of AI and what we want to do with it. Do we want to make AI for good? Or do we want to end up making killer robots? We decided no, we won’t. We can use this for good, so let’s do that.
We also talk a lot about how important our team is and our technology is. But really, we couldn’t get to where we are unless we all rely on each other on the team, trusting each other, leading the process and believe in what we’re doing. So we say it’s tech first. That’s the biggest thing, but actually it’s our team first; it’s our people. The right people you can get anywhere.
John: Now, how do you weave – because you and I talked a little bit before the show so I’ve a little unfair advantage to our listeners – but, Oliver, how do you weave the family side into it?
And we talked about how your wife has a very strong influence and your family is very important to you, and you and I talked about how we both see the world as having that balance, how do you weave that into an emerging company, tech first, hard data on and on and on. How do you keep that balance in place so that your culture stays pure?
Oliver: It’s difficult in the onset. At the moment, it feels like it’s running at a thousand miles an hour and it’s very easy to miss things. It’s very easy to get sucked into a thousand things you need to do that week or even that day and forget what you are as a company. We had this last week, so it’s not that we’re perfect. We had this last week where it was a very long, very hard week, with lots of important things happening and a lot of pressure and there was definitely a point in the week where we saw we were getting away a little bit from our core principles. We were just doing things too quickly. So we slowed down, we regrouped and this week is much better. So I think it’s checks and balances which help to keep that company culture.
John: We talked about your wife’s from Texas, correct?
Oliver: Yes, that’s right.
John: And mine’s from New York and I’m from North Carolina, so it resonates with me. I know it’s two different worlds colliding. How does she influence how you operate?
Oliver: It’s two things. She’s incredibly smart and she works as a non-profit consultant, so she’s telling really big organizations how to do a better job in what they’re doing but she’s also very much interested in the wider world.
She has worked in a non-profit capacities in companies from different countries and she is as interested in what else happens out there as I am.
We both traveled a lot. We both are interested in different ways of doing things and different cultures and so on. So she’ll bring me back to say, “Hey, is this really about people or is it about making money?” I think it’s about people. We think with our technology, without wanting to sound too boastful, we can hopefully impact everyone’s life and I don’t just mean in the US; I mean in developing countries. We hoped that one of the offshoots is everyone there will suddenly have an internet which is as fast as it is here right now.
We think that’s going to help all these different countries, places we haven’t even been to yet. Or then, there’s a large population which doesn’t have an internet connection and we want to help that happen. So that everyone can be a bit more connected and you can have a better global sense, better global connection.
John: Every company I have ever witnessed that had a very positive culture had someone I refer to as the moral compass. Because whatever business you’re in, you get pulled it a hundred different ways, you’ve veered off the tracks and you think you’re doing the right thing until someone raises their hand. For us, it’s our CEO, my wife, Kaira, who’s our moral compass. She calls time out and no, it doesn’t matter, won’t do it, it’s people in our firm, if you have something to do with your child. For example, this week, one of our designers was sitting in our design studio and she would have a long face on it and Kaira walked up her and said, “Stacey, what’s wrong?” Stacey said “Well, my daughter is supposed to go visit the High School at 13:00 today ‘cause she’s going to leave 8th grade to go to High School and I’m worried on how it’s going to go” and Kaira would just say, “Why are you sitting here?” She said, “I have these projects,” then she goes, “Time out. We’re not saving lives. We’re not curing any diseases. It’s office furniture. Stop.”
John: And if anybody doesn’t understand it, perhaps it’s not a good fit for us.
Oliver: Completely. I couldn’t agree more.
John: Go take care of your child and then come back here, which is the founding philosophy of our company which is that family comes first and we’ll follow along. We’ll be okay, could it be. If you don’t take care of your family, you have no use. You will be of no use to us.
Oliver: And here’s the thing. My people would then come back.
John: Oh, yeah.
Oliver: Yeah. I mean it’s just common sense.
John: Who is your moral compass?
Oliver: Here’s the fantastic thing. So we’ve got four co-founders which can be difficult, but we’ve got four co-founders who all got a very strong moral compass and I had a very strong end goal of what we could do with this technology on a global sense and global way.
Stephen, my partner in New York has got a really similar but slightly different goal. We’ve been thinking about this completely independently, but we were just as passionate about what we can do.
And then Marco and Jonas in France, they’ve got their own goal and it’s also to make things better, I suppose, and to use the technology in the right way and when we first started talking, I didn’t know any of this. I didn’t know that they they all had such strong morals. So it was fantastic finding this out. So we have four compasses, that’s the answer.
John: And it sounds pretty exciting. You rarely find that. Now tell me Oliver, how did company culture accelerate your business? Can you share a story that would define that this is something that happened and this is an example of how it accelerates our growth because of our culture?
Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. I was doing a talk last week and this is a talk, I suppose, not too technical a talk but a talk on AI. IBM Watson was there, not the company who does financial forecasting and afterwards, one of the people in the audience came up to me and said, “I want to work for your company. And this was a guy who is very smart. Two PhD’s, he had been headhunted by NASA and Google and all the other usual kind of big names.
He said he wanted to work for us, or with us rather, not because of the technology. And our technology is good, but there are other people with fantastic technology. But because he felt like he could fit in to our company. It would be a good fit that he’d be somewhere he’d enjoy being and to me, that was everything.
John: You’ve got to fit.
Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. I mean…
John: It doesn’t matter how talented you are. If you don’t fit, then that sucking noise you hear will be the culture going down the drain.
Oliver: Yes, absolutely. I mean we want the very smartest people on the planet to work with us and to get that it isn’t a case of “Hey, just pay more money.” So what do you actually want to be doing every day? What sort of environment do you want to be in? What sort of office do you want to be in? What do you want your surroundings to be?
The guys in France, early on, they said that “We don’t want to do lots of board meetings. We don’t want to have too lots of bureaucracy. And we might disappear for a week and just work on pure code.” And they do. And they’re fantastic when they come back. But they’re fantastic because we’ve given them the freedom to work how they want to work.
John: You talked about environment and what kind of office you want to work in. Kaira and I have been in the interiors of helping people to create company culture through the art of design and furniture for over 30 years and I’m always amazed when people want a certain culture but they create a 180 degree environment and the example I give all the time is that you get someone, a start-up or an emerging company, who think “What would the investors say if we bought a nice chair? So we’re going to buy a $150.00 chair,” and I look at them and say, “You’re going to buy that same $150.00 chair 4 times in the next five years when you could have bought one $350.00 chair for a lifetime.” Your investor will look and think you’re nuts.
Number one, it’s poor use of your resources. Number two, what are you saying to the people that you want to retain or attract in your company? Because our belief is in having done it; you don’t have to spend a lot of money to create the culture. You can spend, you can invest correctly and get a great return on your investment and I was just wondering what your thoughts are as it relates to the design of your offices in your company and how it affects how you retain people and attract people into your organization.
Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I couldn’t agree more. So we’re set up in a couple of different work buildings, sort of month by month office rental but they look fantastic. They’re beautifully designed. Things are well setup and there’s a nice feel. There’s a nice vibe there. So it’s just a nicer place to work and it’s probably the quick answer.
John: Yeah, but no one’s sitting in cubicle farms, right?
Oliver: Yeah, exactly. It’s much more open; it’s a place thay somebody actually wants to turn up at but we also know that we’re going to be moving into our own space when the right time is and that look and feel is going to be everything. It’s about where you actually want to turn up to work and that cubicle look – no, thank you. It’s just, it’s not good. I mean, with a good feel; you do better work.
John: Yeah, you have to. I mean, if we have all the millennials coming into the workforce and you’re talking their language and I have one, my middle son’s graduated from school, and I was talking to one of his friends who’s an engineer and he had said to me, “I have three job offers, John.” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s great Marty.” I said, “So what do you think?” He said, “The one that would pay me the most, it’s horrible.”
John: I said, “I’m not doing that.”
Oliver: There we go.
John: And I said, “Okay, what about that one, the second one?” He said, “Well, the people are unhappy but it’s, it’s just okay.” I said, “What about the third one?” He said, “Oh, yeah, it’s about 25% less in pay but the people are really happy. Its really cool place.” And I was like, “Wow”.
Oliver: There we go. That’s really nice.
John: That is wow. Yeah, these kids don’t look at it the way we looked at it.
Oliver: No, completely. I mean I think we’ve got another, I don’t know if it’s a problem exactly, but another thing going on, which is we’ve got an office in New York, an office in France, and we think by the end of the year we’ll probably have a dozen offices all over the world and how do you keep people connected? How do you keep that the spirit of XLABS in lots of different places? And one of the ways is going to be to make sure the offices look not identical, but pretty similar and have that same feel, so that when you’re talking to someone in Germany or Australia or Japan that you know you are part of the same thing.
John: All right. That’s incredible. I mean we have a large law firm that we have. They picked us up as their vendor probably about seven years ago because they said “You guys aren’t commodity-based. You’re cultural-based and you keep an eye on the bottom line for us,” so it was very nice to hear and we started doing a lot of things for them in New York and then the managing partner called me and said, “We’re opening an office in Paris and I want you to replicate our New York office in Paris.” He goes, “So it’s probably going to be a problem.” I’m like, “No, we take care of people all over the world.” Where I said, “If you want the exact replication, we’ll take it, we can put on a container, we’ll ship it over there and when you walk out of New York and you get on the plane and you go to Paris and you walk into the office, it’ll look just like your New York office.” He said, “That’s exactly what I want.”
Oliver: And the funny thing is, it sounds simple and to do it is not so complicated but the end effect is huge.
John: Oh, yeah.
Oliver: You turn up in Paris, you know where you are. You know the feel and what to expect and yeah, it can’t be taken for granted.
John: No. His comment was that “My brand emanates no matter where I am in the world” because I said I’d talk to him and said, “I could get local products and it would probably save you about 18 to 28% in that range. He said, “You think my brand is —
John: Oh my, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend. I’m just doing my job, making sure you know. He said “I know but when you start to put up a price tag on a brand, then you have forsaken your brand.”
Oliver: Exactly. And right now, especially since we’re getting more and more global, our brand is everything. A brand is what you stand for and who you are much more than even what you make. I think that the name matters. I mean we are finding – we are very young; we’ve only been in the public for about four weeks so being in stealth mode for five years and not building up a brand. We have to stay private and starting this process is the biggest thing. There are a lot of questions around it.
John: So when you went public, you guys received an amazing amount of funding. Can you tell us about what that experience was like in going out and attracting that type of investment?
Oliver: We knew what we had is going to work on an enterprise level. If anyone says how many people is this for? What’s your audience? It’s anyone with an internet connection or computer, but we really work on an enterprise level, so people investing know it’s going to be huge. It’s just a case of figuring out how to get it to everyone, all at the same time.
John: So, we talk a little bit about how you got out there and turned it public, you’re little quiet under the radar so to speak, yeah, this is an amazing product. And now, we’re sitting here talking about the culture, so it sounds like to me that XLABS will be a lifestyle brand.
Oliver: Well, funny thing is, it’s not that the general public will realize they’re using it. You won’t know what you did was using our software. Eventually it’s going to be hard-baked into every single laptop, smartphone, every single device. And every cable company will want to use it, and every satellite company. You won’t notice it. Instead, what we’ll do is just have everything, almost, that is going to be better.
I would think from here, yes, you can have internet which is much quicker and probably cheaper. But really, it’s the new companies which will form out of this which are going to be exciting, so everything from holographic technology to virtual reality. We think some amazing things in science and medicine will be possible and we think it’s going to end up helping everyone, but we will be invisible so…
John: Oh, I don’t think you’ll be very invisible, Oliver. I mean there’s quite a few tremendously large successful corporations that don’t make anything but, as they like to say, we make everything else possible.
John: So I think that’s where I think exactly where you’re headed. Can you tell us what your growth plans are for XLABS?
Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. So we are about three to six months away from market integration, which just means our beta software’s finished and bug free, so the moment we can compress to 99.92% without any data loss. Well, that’s in a local environment so this means you have to scale up to a huge company, there are some challenges so we are sort of at that point now of figuring out who our first customers are going to be and the best way to get our software running on their servers, so they can save a whole bunch of money but also have a much faster service.
So that’s where we are technology-wise. In terms of reaching everyone in all the different companies, that’s our challenge, that’s what we need to kind of get out and start telling people what we’re doing.
John: All right. So now it’s time for you to help some of our entrepreneurs who are listening. What tip would you give them when they’re starting to hire and build their business around building a great team with a great culture?
Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. So, it’s of most use to try to think of what skills you need to be done. What work needs to happen, why you bring this person in. What’s more important is company fit. Does that person get your company? Are you actually a good fit? And it’s not your fault or their fault if you don’t fit; it just means that’s probably not the right person. We find it’s more important to have someone who understands our approach to things. This is just how we are doing things and it seems to be working.
John: So what’s the most common mistake you see entrepreneurs making when they’re trying to build these successful cultures and businesses, and when you say, “Wow, I see this over and over and over again?”
Oliver: Okay. It’s a hard thing to do; it’s not easy. Anyone who says it’s easy, you need to dig a little. We find you have to look at things from many angles.
It is hard to think about everyone’s viewpoint and what makes them tick, but it’s a case of sometimes stepping back and saying, “Well, what are we doing here? What’s the question being posed or how are we approaching this? And do your best and keep revising, keep looking at the same situation to try to think how you could come from a different angle and do a better job.
John: It’s like the old adage. If it was easy, everybody would do it.
Oliver: Absolutely, yeah.
John: All right Oliver, we’re going to move to the lightning round now. We’re just going to ask you some quick questions and get your thoughts on them.
Oliver: Yeah, that sounds good.
John: Okay, what book changed your life?
Oliver: It’s one I read a long time ago, but I’ve always got with me called “The Little Prince” and you could see it as a children’s book or one talking about very deep philosophy. It’s very short and everyone should read it.
John: What’s your go to quote for inspiration?
Oliver: It’s one by Mick Jagger, “Good things never end”.
John: I like that. All right, now you can’t answer my company, so your company in this question doesn’t count but your company does count. This doesn’t count now. What company do you admire the most as it relates to culture and why?
Oliver: So I was thinking about this and it’s really hard to come up with one company. So instead, I’m going to say all the companies right now, who are trying something new, starting it from fresh and saying, “Hey, let’s build the company, let’s try something new. What do we want to build?” And the number of start-up companies, especially in New York, who are out there doing something new and figuring it out. It’s this perseverance I can really admire and it’s hard so anyone doing it, hats off to them.
John: Last question for you. Why should people work for XLABS?
Oliver: We love smart people, so if you have a double PhD and NASA have been headhunting you and or you’ve got a new idea for something and people might think you’re crazy. We will fully understand the idea and probably get it. So we like really smart people and we like to set them up so they can be the very best they can be.
Now we happen to be building something that’s going to change the world, but actually need smart people and driven people to help us make it happen.
John: Oliver, I can’t thank you enough for spending some time with us. How can our listeners connect with you?
John: Really easily; the best way is either they can go to the website and my contact information will be there in a weeks’ time. You can reach out on Twitter and my Twitter handle is just my name, @OliverChristie or via email and that’s firstname.lastname@example.org.
John: And I would tell all my listeners, he will actually contact you back. We just reached out to him. We thought he was so cool, so we just reached out to him and we figured, hey, the worst he could say was no. And he didn’t say no. He was very generous for this time. You’ve been a prince.
I can’t thank you enough. I never end a show without sharing with my guest, my favorite quote from Maya Angelou which is, “People will forget what you’ve said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel”, and Oliver, I hope we made you feel welcome. We hope we made you feel that you are important and we hope that we made you feel that you want to come back and see us again.
Oliver: Oh, absolutely. And thank you John. It’s been nice talking and sharing some of these things and what we’re up to.
John: We hope you’ll come back in a few months and join us again and tell us how you’re doing. We’d love to hear from you, so, will you come back and see us again?
Oliver: Absolutely. I’d love to.
John: Oliver, in your travels, if you find someone that you think could be great for our listeners to hear from, please send them our way.
Oliver: I will do. Absolutely.
John: Wish you the very best. Be well my friend.
Oliver: Thank you.
John: All right. Bye-bye.
[END OF RECORDING]