Who is Jeffrey Hayzlett
Jeffrey is a best selling author, host of C-Suite, contributing editor of Bloomberg TV and a host of a radio show. He is a Fortune 100 officer at Eastman Kodak where he served as the Chief Marketing Officer for about four years. He is the owner of a public relations company called Tall Grass, a social media company which runs the C-Suite Network, which is the world’s most powerful network of business leaders.
In this episode, Jeff shared with us:
- Why you should focus on the mood of the company to develop a better culture
- Why a lot of times, entrepreneurs make the wrong decisions and how you can avoid the same mistake
- His thoughts on culture, diversity, and brand
- Plus an interesting chat about his favorite quote
[3:33] What was the most monumental event that happened to you that was your tipping point when you were starting your company?
Answer: Probably, when I was born. Everybody always says, “What’s the greatest thing in occurrence that has happened to you?” I go out with the philosophy that there are a lot of things which have been important and I don’t think there was any one single thing. I’ve learned from every single thing, both good things and certainly the bad, as well.
[7:59] Do you believe that true ROI comes when investing in a strong culture in an office environment and style?
Answer: Yes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t still have a great experience, or great product or a great service from a crappy office.
[15:14] What tips would you give an entrepreneur who is starting to hire aggressively and build their business around a great team and building a great culture?
Answer: Entrepreneurs will go through a stage where you start up as a one man band, and we have to develop followers. Typically we develop followers who aren’t always the best but they have the right energy, the right mood, the right attitude about want we want. They don’t necessarily have the best skill sets always, but that’s just the nature of adding up those developed followers.
Culture According to Jeff:
Culture is something that occurs over a long period of time. A lot of people put a lot of [–] of culture in it. It’s important to have an understanding of the culture. But, culture is made up by many people over many years, that’s why it’s called the culture.
Go to Quote for Inspiration
The Company Jeff Admires
Emerging Companies to Keep an Eye on
Docusign – I think they’re going through the roof this year.
Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco by Bryan Burrough
Iacocca by Lee Iacocca
Links and Resources Mentioned in this Interview:
Where to Find Jeff:
Connect with John on
John: Welcome to Be Culture radio and today, we’re going to talk about Discovering the Cultures: the DNA Behind the Brand – who’s doing it right, wrong and just perfect from Mr. C-Suite himself, Jeff Hayzlett.
Jeff Hayzlett: Hey, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it very much.
John: Jeff, you are not only a bestselling author and host of C-Suite, you’re a contributing editor to Bloomberg TV and you host a radio show. So you’re a pretty busy guy.
Jeff: I’m staying a little bit busy, and then I’m also doing a ton of interviews this week; it’s been quite a week.
John: Before we jump, could you tell our listeners a little bit about you? Everybody sees you on TV and we’ve heard you speak, which is phenomenal. If any of my listeners have not had the chance to see Jeff speak, please take the time to do that. It’s a phenomenal experience.
Jeff: I appreciate that. Well, I’m from South Dakota, I was known as a cowboy, and so that’s my main home. I also have a place in New York City because our offices are in New York, LA and in Sioux Falls as well, and we say that because we can. Everybody says, “Why at Sioux Falls?” And I always tell people, “Because we can.”
Most of my life, I’ve been an entrepreneur or a business owner of some kind, or an executive in some major companies.
I was a Fortune 100 officer at Eastman Kodak as the chief marketing officer, and served there for about four years. I left there about five years ago and went back out on my own.
Now, I’m doing the television and radio, writing the occasional book, and then doing a little bit of consulting. We have another company which we call TallGrass, which is a public relations and social media company, and then of course, we’re running out what’s called the C-Suite network, which is the world’s most powerful network for business leaders and we’re focused primarily on businesses that are above 10 million in size and for wwhich C-suite makes up the leadership of those organizations.
John: Jeff, what was the most monumental event that happened to you, that was your tipping point when you were starting your company?
Jeff: Probably, when I was born. Everybody always says, “What’s the greatest thing in occurrence that has happened to you?” I go out with the philosophy that a lot of things have been important and I don’t think there was any one single thing. I’ve learned from every single thing, both good things and certainly the bad, as well.
I don’t look at it as one big thing, being an officer of a Fortune 100 company. That’s in itself a big thing but so was my first book, so was my second book, so was being a host of a prime time television show and so forth and so on. There’s been lots of things, to me, that add up to make who you are and who I am. And I think that’s the way most business people should look at it; and like I said, I don’t think the best things that I’ve done in my life are behind me. I think they’re ahead of me. I don’t know what those things are yet.
John: Thanks. You resonate a great deal with me. I grew up on a farm in North Carolina. I spent the last 30 years in New York City. People laughed when I married a girl from New York City, and they’re like, “How does that work?” and I look at people and I’m like, “It’s really simple. It works because she tells me it does.”
Jeff: Yeah, exactly. I have one of those spouses, as well. It’s like when you have the big city and the country, it’s like Green Acres, that old television show.
John: And for me, it’s pretty fun because she’s my business partner and we do a lot of things. It balances. We take the country approach, because when with some people, you only do the hard stuff when it’s convenient. Growing up out in the country there are no conveniences about doing the hard stuff, you do it everyday.
Jeff: You do it in every single day just like in South Dakota. We just get stuff done. It’s like the other day, they talk about the blizzard in New York City and everybody was saying that they can’t go to work. Literally, it was Tuesday morning and I wake up and the skies are fairly clear. There’s maybe an inch and a half still on the ground and they’ve literally shut the city down. I just said, “You know, back in South Dakota we just called this Tuesday.
John: You know, Jeff, I’m the youngest of eight. My job was to make sure the cows were fed and the horses were fed. Growing up you see snow and people are like “Did you tell your Father?” I said, “First off, I never told my father anything.” If they didn’t get fed, I didn’t get fed. There was a direct correlation between the culture I grew up in and where I am today. Jeff, you grew up on a farm, you have seen all the corporate cultures from Kodak to your different businesses you’re in. What would you say is your definition of a company culture?
Jeff: Culture is something that occurs over a long period of time. A lot of people put a lot of fixation on culture. It is important to have an understanding of the culture. But culture is made up by many people over many years that is why it is called the culture. It takes a long time, typically, to develop.
I like to have companies focus more on mood. I think you have a greater impact focusing on the mood than you do on the culture. Culture is going to become what culture is. If we are all part of the company, I’m that company, you’re that company and together we make up the culture of that company you get. I was telling them to focus on the mood. If a company leaves their best days behind it, it’s really difficult to change it. You have to convince it that their best days lie ahead.
Hence, my attitude when I was talking to you about that earlier. How many times have you been to a great restaurant, fabulous foods, the best food in the world? But the waiters are kind of snotty. It ruins the experience. How many times have you been to a crappy restaurant? It’s not the best food in the world, but people are so nice that you want to go back. That’s where I tell people to focus more on that mood and the culture will develop.
John: Do you believe the ROI?
Jeff: I’ll believe in anything; go ahead.
John: Do you believe that true ROI comes when investing in a strong culture, in an office environment and style?
Jeff: Yes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t still have a great experience, or great product or a great service from a crappy office. I have an old friend of mine, a fishing guy up in Canada, and he’s from Minnesota, Bob Lazar was the guy’s name. When you go fishing in this place and you go out in the remotes of Canada for a week or so without any phone or electricity-
One of his sayings is, “A clean boat is a happy boat”. My children grew up with that phrase because I always said that. They’ve said that they’ve gone to Bob Lazar’s fishing camping. I just started yelling around the house or in the office, “A clean boat’s a happy boat,” meaning if you look good and you take care of your things, you typically reflect that back on others through the way in which you do it.
Now, I’ve just bought a new office building in South Dakota. I’m about to relocate the office. I’m doing one here in New York, as well. We’re making it look nice.
Why? Because I want people to work in a nice environment. I want them to feel proud of their surroundings, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t put up a folding table and get the same results. I can do that, and if I have to I will, and I’ve done it. It is nice to look good and to act the part and take care of yourself.
John: I also think Jeff, there’s a disconnect between looking good and cost. Everybody thinks because you need to make it look good there’s this huge price tag to it. Having been in the interiors business for 30 years – and we run our own company – we just finished a corporate headquarters for SFX in the city. It wasn’t expensive. Again, I go back to our roots.
Jeff: I was blown away. The other day I went to buy these new desks and they were a thousand dollars a piece, which, to me, it’s like, “Whoa, are you kidding? This is unbelievable.” Right now I’m sitting on a desk from IKEA that I picked up for $200. It’s amazing what I used to pay and what I pay now. There’s a big difference.
John: I think part of it comes from how we build the cultures but you also educate and give people the ability to understand that – I deal with a lot of merging companies and startups and the guys would say, “We just got our Series A funding and we can’t spend any money. We need to spend a hundred dollars on this chair.” And I said, “Time out. You’ve got to go back to your investors and you’re going to tell them you’re buying a $100 chair. And you’re going buy that $100 chair six times over the next five years or you could have bought a $350 chair once with a lifetime warranty. Who would ever give you money again?”
Jeff: I always buy the chair. I always do that. If you spend money, just an FYI, I spend good money on a chair. I always do because that’s where people’s butts are going to be most of the time. I want to make sure that they are good.
John: I tried to explain to my dad what I did one day and finally I broke it down, “Dad, I’m trying to find a rear end for chairs.” [Laughs]
Jeff, you’ve met hundreds of leading C-level executives, Fortune 500 companies, so can you tell our listeners a story about a time when you saw a culture and you knew that company was going to take off? And where you saw a culture and you said, “Uh, this is – I need to help these people?”
Jeff: Well, Kodak was that way. It could have been both ways. There were certain aspect of Kodak that really did take off and could take off, and then there was other aspects that was helped out.
You can only move as fast as your slowest common denominator in anything that you do or in the way you approach it. It was difficult there. You could walk in and feel it. Again,you talk about your surroundings and we’re stuck in the 90’s when you walked in to the Kodak headquarters or any other office building.
In order to get people start feeling better we have to start changing some of the surroundings because getting back to that point–to change the mood–because at Kodak, we truly believed their best days were behind us.
They used to constantly come to me and say “Jeff make us like we used to be. Make us look cool again,” but they can’t be cool and be dressed like Elmer Fudd. It doesn’t work. If you’re going to dress like Elmer Fudd, you’re going to be Elmer Fudge. And another thing is that it’s the wrong attitude. it’s the wrong mood. When people say, “Make us look like we used to.” Well, I don’t want to look like I did when I was twenty. I don’t look like that anymore. I actually look better. That’s the way I describe it you. It’s that mood that you have to have.
Companies are littered with that all over the place. I’ve bought and sold over 250 businesses in my career, $25 Billion in transactions, and I’ve always found that you just have to go in and start to change the place. I actually do it by cleaning the place. That’s the first thing I did.
Even in Kodak I went in and started changing the way the walls looked and getting people to clean up the bathroom. Everyone’s bitching and moaning because they had to take out their own garbage. But what do you do at home? You can take it out here too. Take it down the hallway. What’s wrong with you?
Even today in our office in New York, all the team members here are to take turns in doing chores.
John: I think it builds a camaraderie.
Jeff: I’ve looked at it both ways and I think it gives you better ownership of who you are, and I am like one of those people: if Jesus could wash somebody’s feet, I can take out the garbage.
John: Amen. Jeff, we all know that it is the buzz that everybody talks these days – retaining and attracting key employees, new employees and that becomes a big issue for companies and now, versus 10 years ago, the matching of an office environment and its culture to these millennials that are coming up; the new work force. What is your opinion on that?
Jeff: I think you match the way in which you have to service people, and that means more people working in their home, more people working remote, your people working more mobile, in a hotel and the office rather than, everybody’s got a separate place. You’ve got to do things that you’ve got to be able to do. I don’t look at that stuff.
Recently, as I said, I’ve been remodeling the offices, and putting them into a new building, and I’m just making it a very open environment. Some people didn’t like that but I like it. It takes all the stuff out of it. So everybody’s desk is right next to everybody else’s desk.
Someone said, “Well, I can’t work if I don’t have my own office.” Then I say back, “ Well, we’ll miss you.” Because all we’re going to do is have some conference rooms. If you need to make a private conversation, then go outside or do it at some other time. I can’t help you with that.
There are three or four conference rooms. You can step inside of there and make a call, or go to the bathroom, I don’t care. You’re going to have a hard conversation? Everybody knows this stuff anyway, so why hide all that stuff? I think it’s a much better way, a transparent way, just to have open conversations and get your stuff done.
John: What tips would you give an entrepreneur who is starting to hire aggressively and build their business around a great team and building a great culture?
Jeff: Entrepreneurs will go through a stage where you start up as a one man band, and we have to develop followers. Typically we develop followers who aren’t always the best but they have the right energy, the right mood, the right attitude about want we want. They don’t necessarily have the best skill sets always, but that’s just the nature of adding up those developed followers.
You get more people who drink the Kool Aid than can make the Kool Aid, probably. Then the third thing, you start adding the skilled professionals. What you want to do is this: think ahead as much as you possibly can to try to find the right people.
I would spend a little bit more time just laying out what the conditions of satisfaction are.
I think a lot of times entrepreneurs make poor decisions because they’ve got to fix the problem, they see the person in front of them and it’s a warm body, and you take it, you know. By the way, I find myself that way a lot too and the more I sit down to say, “Let me spell out the position. Here’s the condition of satisfaction. Here’s what it requires. Here’s what I’m going to need. This is where we’re going to go. This is what I require.” It makes me sharper and the way I think about it and I might go and alter the way I would approach it.
John: Jeff, culture has become this buzz word that we all hear all the more. Diversity, culture, it’s all intermixed.
My background in having worked for the Westinghouse Electric Corporation, worked for British tire rubber, worked for big corporations, meant that I saw the coming of this and it just didn’t work for me. I wanted to do what I want to do because I felt that I was right, and that is how I was raised. But I look back and see – I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this – when you advise people and you speak to them, and they say, “Hey, Jeff, help me understand this”, they say that “The people say this is what’s hip, this is what’s cool. Let’s talk about culture, let’s talk about diversity,” but you’re just checking boxes.
Jeff: Yeah, exactly. I like to grow things and grow it the way I want. Grow it the way by which it’s going to be you or whatever it is. A lot of people talk about the brand. Brand has a couple of interpretations. First of all, brand is something that would occasionally be put on horses, and always put on a cow. That’s where the “brand” came from. Ranchers and cattlemen would take their cows out, mark them with a brand and the brand on their sides was a mark of ownership. It’s the mark of ownership on the side of the bull, that’s what that means. We gather them in the spring, we can separate the herd and what belongs to whom. And then that transfers over to what your logo is and what company is.
It’s not really the brand in terms of the look; there’s some aspect of that but it’s really about whether your promise is delivered. If you’re an entrepreneur, someone thinking about your business, or any C-suite executive, start thinking about what the promise that we want to deliver is and whether, based on that promise, it is delivered. What is the best, most efficient way by which we can get that done? How do I want to do it?
Everything goes into it: the look, the feel, from the look of your office to how people dress, how they respond on your email, how you present stuff in decks, what your print material looks like and your digital material looks like. What is the language of your company? It’s whether your people show up on time, or they show up late or they show up early.
All those things contribute to what that promise is that you deliver. You should spend a great time on that, more than probably anything else, in terms of designing what it is you want to be when you grow up.
John: Jeff, How do you advise – the other big buzz word is “diversity”. All the corporations want to have diversity, and have diversity vendors. My partner and I – I have been fortunate for 30 years to have my best friend, my wife, and my partner – we own a female minority-owned firm.
We are just a living – black and white. She is African-American and I’m a white kid from the South, and everyone told us it would never work and we laughed and said. “Thirty years later, we have three great kids. Yeah, right!” People call us and say, “We need to talk to you because you’re a female minority-owned firm and all our stop signs go up because that doesn’t define us.
That is not how we raised our children. That’s not how we run our company. That is way in the background. We’re a very competent, well-run organization and by the way, if that means something to you, it’s over there on the right.
Jeff: Yeah, but I wouldn’t be afraid to use that. Certainly, I would use that as a tool in my arsenal if it’s effective in one – but it’s one aspect of all the things that you do and who you are. I mean, you can’t deny that because you can look and see. You know exactly what that is. You know what your background and history is, and your family background and make up, and so forth. Those are all things that you can use. Just like how I use the fact that I –you know, I always play up a cowboy from South Dakota, blah, blah, blah.
I think for companies – in terms of diversity, do I look at all those things? Yeah, I try to be reflective of the audience that I’m serving or the audience that I have.
For instance, when I was at Kodak, I actually had 76% of the people who were reporting to me happen to be women or people of color. Why was that important? I didn’t really plan it that way. It just happened that way. The fact that it happened that way – It’s funny. I actually had the head of diversity office in our company look at it, because they really do pay attention to this stuff, and it’s good metrics for larger companies make sure that you’re not one way or another and that someone’s looking at that.
I think that’s for bigger organizations. It is a little tougher when you have four people as opposed to 40,000 or 400,000. When you have four people, it’s not easy to always find the right person – their age, color, sexuality – to be able to find that. It’s just not. You’ve got to work a little harder or little longer sometimes if that’s what you want to do to balance all that out. I tend to pick the people around you and grow it. If that’s important, do it.
It’s funny when I was at Kodak and I was one of the key executives there. They actually came to me and said, “Look, Jeff, we have to talk to you because you’re out of whack.” “What do you mean I’m out of whack?” They didn’t use those terms but they basically said, “You have too many women and too many people of color.” I said “What?” They said, “Your at risk populations are white males over 40″ and I said, “So, what?” They actually said, “No, we really have to actually help you get more white men over forty.” I said, “No, you’re not.” Go ahead.
John: That’s my point, Jeff. I think today in corporate America, instead of finding good competent people, they’re checking boxes. I see it firsthand for our company.
Jeff: Some of those people have to do that. That is part of how they’re measured. What I like about that, and what’s good about that, John, is that what you’re doing is you’re forcing people to think about it and to have conversation about it. You and I look at it and say “Ah, that’s kind of whack, isn’t it? You’re just checking a box.” But really, what they’re doing is forcing a conversation, creating a little bit of tension in an organization, “Ah, that’s good. Now, are you making that decision in the best interests of the company? If it’s possible to put an African-American woman in there or an Asian woman in there, or any woman in there, or whatever, is that such a bad thing?” Probably not. Come on, no. “But if you could do that, would you?” “Yes.” “Then help me find that. Don’t yell at me for not doing it. I didn’t have the available pool.” So then the conversation becomes, “How do I go find those people? How do I get more qualified people of color or of sexual orientation or whatever? Left-handed… I don’t care.
How do you that? That’s good. The conversation should be about that and how do we find more people and so forth and so on.
I remember, going back to the folks at the diversity office and said that is your problem. I’m helping you out in the other places in the company where you don’t have these. Not to mention, I said that from the marketing prospective we were mostly selling to women and were mostly selling to a great deal of people of color around the world. I want to have our marketing department reflect those values and reflect those populations.
You can imagine what it’s like to be in a big company and someone says, “I would like to manage business in China or Hawaii.” “But, why?” “Well, because I like Chinese food. I’ve been there twice.” It doesn’t count. I like Chinese people running Chinese business and I like Indians running Indian business. I don’t need people from the other portions of the world doing that. So I always look at it and say, “Okay, in those countries, for instance, how can I increase the skill sets of those people who are running it and make conversation around there.
John: I just think, for me, when I see companies that get it, that say, “Now, I might check the box, but I’m going to give people a real opportunity,” and that their cultures are aligned with their belief systems and then on the other side I see that people just check the box but no one is ever given the opportunity. When they say, “Please, come spend your resources so that we can check a box, but you’re never get an opportunity,” that’s where I think it’s an issue.
Jeff: Yeah, when you’re having a purchasing issue like that, and that’s typically what you’re talking about, where they’re looking for a minority provider or supplier, and we had to do that too. We had to buy based on that, as well. Rather than always picking the best possible solution, you’re picking someone to that check that box. Now, is that the right thing? No. Does it help? It helps but it’s not solving the problem. I’m going to put a term on it. It’s just white-washing the issue and that’s a great way of saying it.
John: It is because – we have a minority-owned firm. You don’t buy into that; you do business with us because we’re the best at what we do, and we provide you with the solution to your point of pain.
John: The rest of it is all nice and all good. We don’t want to hang our hat on it, and I don’t think any confident firm, minority or non-minority, wants to be in that environment.
John: But that’s just my opinion.
John: But let me ask you another question.
John: What do you think is the common mistake entrepreneurs absolutely make time and time again? Because you’ve seen it, Jeff, when you’re building these companies and they’re trying to build a culture. There’s got to be some you see over and over, where you slap your forehead and go, “I’m seeing this again?”
Jeff: Yeah. It’s probably “ready, fire, aim.” It really is. What I mean by that is we don’t spend enough time thinking about the things we need to get done, so it’s really around the question of focus.
I think you need to spend more time to focus. What are the three to five things that are going to get you the greatest scale of success? And if you focus more on that, and get rid of all the other things that you think might lead to that, then I think you can be a lot more focused and a lot more successful in the things that you get done. That’s what I’d say.
Almost every time I’m on different shows, I’m always on All Business with NBC, a lot of times, which aims at the small business market. It’s one of your competitors and kind of one of mine as well. But nonetheless, they give good information. I’m always talking about focus. It’s just a good thing for entrepreneurs to do.
John: I agree. Jeff, we’re headed towards the end of the show, and I just want to run through the lightning round here. Just some real basic questions, and just…
Jeff: Sure, fire away.
John: What book changed your life?
Jeff: Two books, actually. I loved reading Lee Iacocca’s book. That kind of dates me. “The Biography”, because that was the first one I turned on, and then the other book that did it for me was “Barbarians at the Gate” and it was about the RJ Reynolds-Nabisco takeover, and that was awesome. That was a great book. I’ll give you one other book called “The Goal”. If you’re an entrepreneur, read that book. It’s not the best book in the world but it’s a great book to learn from.
John: Perfect. And what is your go-to quote for inspiration?
Jeff: “No one’s going to die.” And it’s my own. Like, “Get over it, move on. No one’s going to die. This is what we’re doing. Jeez, get it done.”
John: My favorite was the one my father gave me a long time ago. He said, “Son, if it was easy, then everybody would do it.”
Jeff: Exactly. I also like “Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.” So that’s another one.
John: Jeff, other than your company, what company do you admire the most as it relates to the culture they built and the success they’ve seen?
Jeff: That’s a tough one because there’re so many of them that I’m watching that do a great job. I love what Docusign is doing right now.
I just saw an article by their CEO this morning in Forbes, and there are just so many dog-gone, good companies I’ve liked. I’ve got some friends in all these companies. I like what United is doing. They’re trying to turn it around and do it the right way. They’ve got hardworking people. And all the – I can make a whole list of these. They just go on and on and on because it’s just that every day, you work and you see great inspirations; it’s every day and it’s just fun to see.
John: What emerging company do you think we should keep an eye on?
Jeff: There’s a bunch of those. I mean I just mentioned Docusign. I think they’re going through the roof this year. If Uber can continue to get its act together – but they’ve got to get their act together – they’re a company that’s just going to go, because you love the leadership. So they’re going to have to change some of that stuff. There’s a lot of groups like that.
John: Now Jeff, if you had to describe the Hayzlett Group using three words, and humor us for our show and start it with BE, what three words would you use?
Jeff: Starting with BE?
John: Yeah, because it’s BE Culture radio, right?
Jeff: Oh, I got it. Let’s see. Oh, man. Bad, fast, growth.
John: Okay. All right. I like it. Jeff, it’s been a real pleasure. Can you tell our listeners how they can reach out to you?
Jeff: Oh, absolutely. You can reach me. Just search my name on Google. Hayzlett, H-A-Y-Z-L-E-T-T. You can find me on C-suite TV, C-Suite Radio, which is the new CBS podcast platform and you’ll get my new show called “All Business with Jeffrey Hayzlett”. Or you can watch “The C-Suite with Jeffrey Hayzlett” on C-Suite TV, and all the other shows that we have there as well. We’d love to have you there.
John: One other question for you. We love your books, you’re a bestselling author. Do you have anything in the works for us that we should know about?
Jeff: I do. Much for September. In September, I’m coming out with a book with Entrepreneur Press from Entrepreneur magazine, and the new book is called “Think Big, Act Bigger.”
John: Excellent. Jeff, I was like to share this with our guest before we leave. My favorite quote is Maya Angelou’s, “People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” And I just want to personally thank you. You are a legend in the media business and for you to take the time to talk to us and make me feel welcome in the conversation and valued, I can’t thank you enough.
Jeff: Well, thank you. I appreciate it, my friend, and let’s just do it again when the new book comes out or any other time you want too.
John: If you’ll come back, my door is always open to you. As you go on in your travels and you see people who would benefit from this, on your recommendation, they’ll say: “I’ll do it tomorrow.”
Jeff: You got it. All right, my friend.
John: Thanks Jeff.
[END OF INTERVIEW]